848 credit score disclosure

Posted on December 12, 2012 by Greg Fisher

Here is a message from a reporter for the Cleveland Plain Dealer who claims that the newspaper’s story about a person with an 848 credit score is accurate. However, based on the message, the story appears to be inaccurate.

Twitter message: 848 credit score disclosure was from Bank of America

What you won't see on Twitter

The article states that a credit score disclosure–with nonsense about a person’s 848 credit score being higher than itself–was provided by a credit bureau. But, the message above indicates that the disclosure came from a credit card issuer.

Zombie myths

Posted on November 13, 2012 by Greg Fisher

In April, using his News Corporation Fox Business thingy, Rupert Murdoch published, “According to the Society for Human Resource Management, 60% of employers check applicants’ credit scores for at least some of their job candidates as part of their hiring process.”

Fox Business website before correction

That is nonsense, of course, and somebody changed the Fox story. The new sentence, substituting reports for scores, is “According to the Society for Human Resource Management, 60% of employers check applicants’ credit reports for at least some of their job candidates as part of their hiring process.”

[Rookie reporters and journalism students: Don’t be afraid to check original sources (Wouldn’t that be novel?).]

But, there is no acknowledgement on that story’s page (whose title uses a question mark) by Murdoch of the error and its correction. That is not to say, however, that he always acts in such a clandestine manner. Within another property in his empire, there was clear acknowledgement of the same error.

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart

Mon – Thurs 11p / 10c

The Question Mark

www.thedailyshow.com

Daily Show Full Episodes

Political Humor & Satire Blog

The Daily Show on Facebook

Unfortunately, due to the syndicated error phenomena, the zombie myth lives.

It also lives in a certain Louisiana State University study, on a United States federal government server, no less, for U.S. citizens to read (and become misinformed). The National Institutes of Health website states, “Many organizations use credit scores as an employment screening tool, but little is known about the legitimacy of such practices.”

And, here we go, again:

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:35 AM
To: Rupert Murdoch, chairman and CEO, News Corporation (via Julie Henderson)
Cc: Tim Sullivan, writer, translator, yoga teacher and massage therapist, Money Blue Book
Subject: name your source; coining a term: CUR (credit-utilization ratio)

You published

When you close an account, especially a larger account, your credit-utilization ratio (CUR) will be affected and your score could go down. In addition, if the card you’re closing was the first credit card you ever got, it could shorten the length of your credit history, which can also hurt your score… Closing too many cards at once can cause your credit score to drop sharply from a snowball effect of the reasons mentioned above.

Who is your source regarding closing an account shortening a credit history? Fair Isaac calls that a myth.

Also, where did you get the idea to use the initials CUR to refer to the so-called credit utilization ratio? Why don’t you call it PBCL (proportion of balances to credit limits)?

—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

Footnote in testimony

Posted on September 17, 2012 by Greg Fisher

[PREVIOUS CORRESPONDENCE]

From: Lamers, Nellie J.
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:28 PM
To: Greg Fisher (greg@pagea2.com)
Cc: Weagley, Robert O.; Procter, Brenda
Subject: RE: FW: El Dorado Springs Sun, credit score, employers, FreeScore.com

Mr. Fisher~

Robert Weagley, Ph.D., Department Chair, Personal Financial Planning, University of Missouri, will be releasing a new article about this topic on the 28^th.

Also, Brenda Procter, State Consumer & Family Economics Specialist, University of Missouri Extension, spoke with Chi Chi Wu at the National Consumer Law Center. Wu said, “Although the credit reporting industry claims they do not sell credit scores to employers, there is nothing in the law to prohibit employers from obtaining a credit score if you give them written permission.”

I will let you know when Dr. Weagley’ s article is released- thanks~

Nellie

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:50 AM
To: Kimball Long, owner, publisher, El Dorado Springs Sun; Kenny Long, owner, editor, El Dorado Springs Sun; Lisa Schlichtman, executive editor, Cassville Democrat, Rust Communications; Gary W. Rust, chairman, Rust Communications (Cassville Democrat)
Cc: Margot Freeman Saunders, Of Counsel, National Consumer Law Center; Brenda Procter, state specialist & instructor, Personal Financial Planning, College of Human Environmental Sciences, University of Missouri; Chi Chi Wu, expert, consumer credit issues ranging from credit cards to medical debt to fair credit reporting, & staff attorney, National Consumer Law Center; Chris Koster, attorney general, State of Missouri (via N. Gonder); Dean Mills, professor and dean, School of Journalism, University of Missouri; Nellie Lamers, specialist, Family Financial Education, Taney County, Southwest Region, University of Missouri; Robert O. Weagley, associate professor and department chair, CFP program director, college of Human Environmental Sciences, University of Missouri; Dan Iannicola, Jr.; Timothy M. Wolfe, president, University of Missouri; David R. Bradley, chairman, Board of Curators, University of Missouri System; Brandon Ellington, representative, District 41, House of Representatives, State of Missouri; Leonard Hughes IV, representative, District 42, House of Representatives, State of Missouri; Press office, U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau; Jay Nixon, governor, Missouri; Mark Horvit associate professor, executive director, Investigative Reporters and Editors, School of Journalism, University of Missouri
Subject: RE: FW: El Dorado Springs Sun, footnote in testimony

There is nothing in the law to prevent me from pitching a no-hitter in the World Series, either (I just don’t work for such low pay). There is no law preventing me from wearing green hats. And, believe it or not (as incomplete as the law is) there is not even anything in it about unicorns, zombies, little green men nor keeping monkeys from flying out of my nose.

Indeed, there is nothing in the law to prohibit employers from obtaining a credit score. But, inversely, if some Missouri legislators had their way, they would have actually changed the law to make it legal, expressly, to use credit scores in employment. Perhaps they believe the hype.

National Consumer Law Center

This hysteria has gone on for years. In 2005, a representative of the NCLC provided this testimony to Congress: “In some situations, workers are simply deemed ineligible for employment if they do not have adequate credit scores. In others, credit information and scores are checked on an ongoing basis by employers, and workers can be fired for negative information on their credit report, or even low credit scores.”

Also in 2005, with others, Ms. Wu signed a document that states, “Without a Disaster Information Shield, FICO scoring models could pose an affirmative barrier to the efforts of disaster victims to regain, and maintain, financial stability, access reasonably priced credit, and even regain employment.”

(Even is a well-worn cliché in this mess: Outrage at an invisible bogeyman.)

Earlier this year, I made a whistle stop train tour to get their attention. Today, the first signer of that document is an associate director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

But before 2005, in USA Today, Gannett published, “More employers are screening job applicants by credit score.”

Unfortunately, the reporter is dead. His source material may be unavailable. Subsequently, regarding another item, the same media organization published, “An earlier version of this editorial incorrectly suggested that employers look at job applicants’ credit scores.”

Missouri Attorney General

Regarding consumer reports American citizens can obtain for no charge, the Missouri Attorney General states, “You will not see your credit rating (or credit score).”

This is item 5 in the attorney’s general Consumer Credit Quiz:

Your credit rating affects your ability to:

Obtain new financing, such as credit card accounts, lines of credit and loans
Be hired
Rent property
All of the above

The result of answering “All of the above“ is this:

Correct!
All of the above. Your credit history may be considered by potential insurers, landlords and even employers.

Even employers.

This is not about credit scores, and it is not a game; at stake is something fundamental. This is about media accuracy, errors and corrections. It is also about inaccurate information, its origin, its consequences in a democracy and common sense.

Our First Amendment right ends at falsely shouting fire in a theatre.

Where do you publish corrections?

—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

[NEXT CORRESPONDENCE]

CompareCards.com expert asks to be interviewed again

Posted on August 29, 2012 by Greg Fisher

Previous correspondence with CompareCards.com

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:58 AM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, myths

See https://www.pagea2.com/?p=390.

One of your videos, “CREDIT SCORES 101,” states, “Today, credit scores play a part in everything from getting a home, owning a car, to getting a job.”

Born of three years of following that myth, Page A2 is about misinformation, its consequences, and how media deal with correcting and counteracting it.

There is no evidence to support either of your claims. Over two months ago, you said that you would make a correction to one of them, but you did not. What happened?

My name is not Gregg.

—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

From: Chris Mettler
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 11:33 AM
To: Greg Fisher
Subject: Re: Interview Inquiry, insight

We still doing an interview?

From: Chris Mettler
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 5:03 PM
To: Greg Fisher
Cc: Chrissy Bunkley, marketing & communications Specialist, CompareCards.com
Subject: Re: Interview Inquiry, insight

Hey Gregg-

Thanks for your question … I’ll just respond with what I believe I know …

When I made the below statement, I’m making an assumption that credit scorers don’t like to really see balance carry of above 30% in a given month. Obviously, the higher this number, the more chance of a lower credit score. I used 30% as a good threshold to stay under.

So, assuming that about 30% of your overall credit score is based on “Balances or Amount Owed”, I would estimate that 10% of the 30% number is attributed to the number of accounts with balances. Multiple revolving accounts with balances might signal that someone makes purchases beyond their means if they can’t pay this off each month.

Also, my wife grew up in Oakwood and loves Dayton – a throwback spot in this country – go Flyers!

Chris

From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:25 PM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Cc: Chrissy Bunkley, marketing & communications Specialist, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, insight

You wrote: “The overall score is tabulated using several different categories of information that are each weighted depending upon their financial importance to lenders. Some account for 15 percent of your score, for instance, while other categories of your credit performance are worth more than that. Once of the biggies is the amount[SIC] owed, or in other words how much debt you are carrying compared to how much credit you have offered to you. According to Fair Isaac, credit utilization is a key factor in the amount[SIC] owed category – and that category makes up 30 percent of your score.”

If “amount[SIC] owed, or in other words how much debt you are carrying compared to how much credit you have offered to you” “and that category makes up 30 percent of your score,” then what percentage is made up by the Number of accounts with balances?

—
Greg Fisher
Page A
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

From: Chrissy Bunkley
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 4:04 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Subject: Interview Inquiry

Hi Greg,

I’m reading over the Credit Score blog and notice that you feature a wide variety of topics on all things credit score and finance. I hope you don’t mind that I am using the email address that I found from one of your previous posts in where you personally contacted Rubert Murdoch and called him out for misreports of credit scores and job candidacy. You’ve got some guts and I like it!

Let me back up, I’m Chrissy from CompareCards.com, an online credit card comparison website. I’m writing to you because I’d like to offer you the opportunity to interview our founder and CEO, Chris Mettler. Chris has been educating consumers on credit card trends since 2005. His wealth of knowledge in financial responsibility is both informative and actionable for consumers and entrepreneurs alike.

Chris has been featured and interviewed in a number of news outlets, which you can find here: http://www.comparecards.com/in-the-news

If you are interested in this idea, I can connect you with Chris directly, who would be happy to share his insight with your readership.

Please let me know if you have any questions or would like to hear more about this opportunity.

Best,
Chrissy

———-

Chrissy Bunkley
Marketing & Communications Specialist
www.comparecards.com

CompareCards.com did not make the correction

Posted on August 29, 2012 by Greg Fisher

Subsequent message from Comparecards.com

From: Chris Mettler
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM
To: Greg Fisher
Subject: Re: Interview Inquiry, insight, key factor III

Sure

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 2:32 PM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, insight, key factor III

Will you make a correction?

From: Chris Mettler
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 1:20 PM
To: Greg Fisher
Subject: Re: Interview Inquiry, insight, key factor II

I don’t know anyone at Fair Isaac that said credit utilization was a key factor in the amounts owed category, but it has been assumed from many sources that this is a key factor in determining an individuals credit score. I believe this assumption to be correct given that a high credit utilization (or someone with multiple credit accounts with high credit utilization) would infer to a potential creditor that someone has a higher probability of living beyond their current income target – hence a riskier credit profile.

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 12:06 PM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, insight, key factor II

Who at Fair Isaac said—or where did the company state in writing—that credit utilization is a key factor in the Amounts Owed category?

From: Chris Mettler
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 11:18 AM
To: Greg Fisher
Subject: Re: Interview Inquiry, short

Nope, just didn’t no where we were headed with this … I understand this now …

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:10 PM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, short

You only (sort of?) answered two questions.

Is the interview over?

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:31 AM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, insight, nearly

Fair Isaac has revealed some things about the so-called “credit utilization” ratio, but not what you claim. When the company explains FICO scoring to a general audience, it applies general weights to major data categories such as, “Amounts Owed is 30 percent of a typical consumer’s score.” It doesn’t break that weighting into finer parts for individual factors, both to avoid unintentionally misleading the public and to protect the model’s proprietary information.

However, recently, one outlet claimed that Fair Isaac said, “The credit utilization ratio is nearly 30% of a person’s credit score.”

Similarly, you made a statement regarding the importance of a factor, and attribute the information in it to Fair Isaac. You appear to have knowledge of a statement by the keeper of the secret credit score formula that further defines it.

From: Chris Mettler
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 1:14 PM
To: Greg Fisher
Subject: Re: Interview Inquiry, insight, key factor

Not sure where all this is going

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 1:00 PM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, insight, key factor

Who at Fair Isaac said—or where did the company state in writing—that credit utilization is a key factor in the Amounts Owed category?

From: Chris Mettler
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:58 AM
To: Greg Fisher
Subject: Re: Interview Inquiry, insight, 15 percent category

Length of Credit Score?

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 5:22 PM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, insight, 15 percent category

What is the name of another category that accounts for 15 percent of a FICO score?

Hey Gregg-

Thanks for your question … I’ll just respond with what I believe I know …

Also, my wife grew up in Oakwood and loves Dayton – a throwback spot in this country – go Flyers!

Chris

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:25 PM
To: Chris Mettler, founder and CEO, CompareCards.com
Cc: Chrissy Bunkley, marketing & communications Specialist, CompareCards.com
Subject: RE: Interview Inquiry, insight

—
Greg Fisher
Page A
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

From: Chrissy Bunkley
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 4:04 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Subject: Interview Inquiry

Hi Greg,

Chris has been featured and interviewed in a number of news outlets, which you can find here: http://www.comparecards.com/in-the-news

If you are interested in this idea, I can connect you with Chris directly, who would be happy to share his insight with your readership.

Please let me know if you have any questions or would like to hear more about this opportunity.

Best,
Chrissy

———-

Chrissy Bunkley
Marketing & Communications Specialist
www.comparecards.com

correction policy, Philadelphia Inquirer

Posted on August 14, 2012 by Greg Fisher

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:14 PM
To: Bill Marimow, editor, Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia Media Network Inc.; Reid Kanaley, columnist, Philadelphia Inquirer
Cc: Laura D. Adams, personal finance expert, Quick and Dirty Tips; Stacy Johnson, CPA, executive producer, publisher, president, journalist, Money Talks News; Jeff Gelles, columnist, Philadelphia Inquirer; Gail MarksJarvis, personal finance columnist, Chicago Tribune; Sam Zell, Tribune Company
Subject: correction policy, Philadelphia Inquirer

Mr. Marimow, please forward this message to Robert Hall of Interstate General Media L.L.C.

See this message and your response at https://www.pagea2.com/correction-policy-philadelphia-inquirer/

You published, “The Money Girl website includes this post by Laura Adams, with tips for raising a score.”

Your link leads to a page on which Adams states, “Your score indicates your creditworthiness to potential lenders, banks, landlords, insurance companies, and even to some employers, for instance.”

Your link to MoneyTalksNews goes to a page that states, “Much like your final grade summarized your command of a course in school, your credit score is the distillation of everything in your credit history,” Stacy [Johnson] wrote in 5 Reasons We Need Free Credit Scores Now.”

The link in that sentence leads to a page where Johnson claims: “It’s no exaggeration to say your credit score can change your life. This single number can determine whether you get a job or own a home.”

In another article, your reporter wrote, “There’s no simple answer, because lenders and others who use credit scores – such as insurance companies and employers – use the data differently.”

And finally, you also published, “Because employers and landlords have access to the scores, they can determine who gets an apartment or even a job.”

Employers do not use credit scores because they cannot even get them. Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?

What is your correction policy?

—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

Credit score viral rumor published by Tribune furthered by credit score company, itself

Posted on June 4, 2012 by Greg Fisher

[next email]

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:33 AM
To: Sam Zell, Tribune Company; Sam Zell, Tribune Company (alt)
Cc: László Hajmási, DailyRumor.org; Barry Paperno, FICO; Craig Watts, Fair Isaac; John Ulzheimer, The Ulzheimer Group; Jane Hirt, vice president, managing editor, Chicago Tribune; Gary Weitman, SVP, corporate relations, Tribune Company; Elliot Raphaelson, columnist, Tribune Media Services, Tribune Company; Carolyn Bigda, columnist, Chicago Tribune; Gerould W. Kern, senior vice-president and editor, Chicago Tribune
Subject: RE: credit score, utilization ratio, Chicago Tribune II

Credit score expert John Ulzheimer calls the overstatement of the importance of credit utilization ratio a myth. Now there is a copy of your inaccurate article on—get this—DailyRumor.org.

Oh, the irony.

And, there is even a link to your piece on the myFICO Facebook page.

Oh, the ultimate irony.

—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Carolyn Bigda, columnist, Chicago Tribune
Subject: credit score, utilization ratio, Chicago Tribune

In error, you wrote, “Sixty-five percent of your score depends on just two things — your payment history and the amount you borrow compared with the total credit available to you (what’s known as a credit utilization ratio).”

That may be what Wikipedia says, but you are incorrect. See http://www.myfico.com/CreditEducation/WhatsInYourScore.aspx. The proportions of credit lines used and installment loan amounts still owing are only two of 6 items in the category that makes up 30 percent of the score. Indeed, the number of accounts with balances is in that category, but has nothing to do with any ratio.

Where will the correction appear?

—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342

NPR replies regarding headline error

Posted on May 3, 2012 by Greg Fisher

From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:02 PM
To: Gary Knell, president and CEO, NPR
Cc: Michel Martin, host, Tell Me More, NPR; Edward Schumacher-Matos, ombudsman, NPR; Edward Schumacher-Matos, ombudsman, NPR; Ombudsman, NPR; NPR Corrections; Portia Robertson Migas, NPR; Alicia Montgomery, NPR; Vicki McIvor, Take 3 Management (representing Alvin Hall)
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, NPR, Tell Me More, the sooner the better, 2009-2012, CRA

Your host takes it incorrectly. I don’t disagree with anybody about any alleged inappropriate use of credit scores by employers. That is because employers do not use credit scores, inappropriately or otherwise; they cannot even obtain them.

According to national consumer reporting agency Experian: “Experian’s Employment Insight report includes similar information about loans and credit cards that is listed in the credit report. It does not include year of birth, spouse reference, account number or credit score, which are irrelevant to hiring decisions.”

The interview did not take place more than three years ago.

Consider the citizens.

From: Michel Martin, host, Tell Me More, NPR
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 1:40 PM
To: ‘Greg Fisher’; Edward Schumacher-Matos
Cc: Portia Robertson Migas; Alicia Montgomery
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, NPR, Tell Me More, the sooner the better, 2009-2012

Mr. Fisher I’m good but not that good. i don’t remember this interview that took place more than three years ago, I do not remember your objection and i do not remember any interaction i may have had with you. I take it you disagree with Alvin Hall’s point that credit scores are being used by employers for reasons that he considers inapproppriate. I’ll leave it toour management team to determine whether this warrants a correction. it seem to me this is Alvin Hall’s opinion and he is entitled to it. but we’ll look ino it. a decision won’t rest solely on my opinion if that helps.

[previous correspondence]

Page A2

Media accuracy, errors and corrections

Category Archives: Experts

Zombie myths

Footnote in testimony

National Consumer Law Center

Missouri Attorney General

correction policy, Philadelphia Inquirer

NPR replies regarding headline error